isn't it intentional for chloral hydrate

forcing 1:1 ratios on chemicals fnr

Questionable, very questionable. Also come on, they aren't violating anything if you don't know what the units correspond to.

@Anonus Every single other chemical mix uses a 1:1 ratio in the game.

fnr

What the fuck dude this is a universal law of physics

they aren't violating anything if you don't know what the units correspond to

1 unit === 1 unit, no matter what chemical

In that case, the following recipes also violate this 'rule' that says they have to be 1:1 ignoring ones that spawn an object, are in this PR, or otherwise don't spawn a reagent:

/datum/chemical_reaction/inacusiate
/datum/chemical_reaction/mine_salve2
/datum/chemical_reaction/diphenhydramine
/datum/chemical_reaction/lube
/datum/chemical_reaction/impedrezene
/datum/chemical_reaction/glycerol
/datum/chemical_reaction/capsaicincondensation
/datum/chemical_reaction/virus_food
/datum/chemical_reaction/foaming_agent
/datum/chemical_reaction/ammonia
/datum/chemical_reaction/drying_agent
/datum/chemical_reaction/hair_dye
/datum/chemical_reaction/barbers_aid
/datum/chemical_reaction/saltpetre

Thanks, I'll go through and fix those ones up to be standardized as well.

Look, matter isn't being created or destroyed in these situations, the density is changing.
This is an incredibly common thing to happen, and virtually no mixture in game should have a 1:1 ratio.
Or we could just gloss over the realism and change chemistry so that the amount of effort put in determines the reward returned.

Or, you know, whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21MA_lM8afA

It's called molecular packing nerds.

SS13 chem uses volumes, while actual chemistry uses molar mass. So it doesn't make realistic sense either way.

But guess what? The current setup is a concious balance decision.

This also ignores that fact that half or more of the chemicals we have logically must be aqueous solutions, not pure chemicals.

this isn't even a realism issue, it's just that it's kind of stupid from a balance perspective when you have to go through a bunch of work to get the ingredients for some of these and come out with only a teeny amount of the product (this is mainly an issue with zombie powder)

zombie powder is super strong though. Using it purely as an offensive weapon, you've got an instant effect stun that also mutes, can't be stun broken, and allows you to casually walk through the halls dragging a 'corpse' without anyone batting an eyelash.

yeah but as it is it's impossible to even use because three carp's worth of meat yields 3~ units of zombie powder and if you're growing those beans then everybody will know you're only using them to make zombie powder

That's never stopped people from growing 100 potency death nettle. And you can always jsut grow them in the back if you're that paranoid.

let's look at zombie powder:

requires morphine
in limited supply, no mix recipe, requires cargo to resupply if you run out
requires carpotoxin
has to either be grown in koibeans requiring botany, and you'll be heavily suspect if you're caught growing these things or asking for them from botany
requires copper
yeah this is a dispenser reagent so ??? eh doesn't matter

we can just make copper some other hard 2 get reagent or some shit for the balance

They're like this for balance. Tweak the amounts needed if you're tweaking the amount they output.

This should be obvious. This should be incredibly, incredibly obvious. Why did you not use your brain before coding?

If you want to make a PR to buff all these dangerous chemicals, go do that. Don't make vague PRs then change your mind and make them suddenly be about balance instead of 'consistency'.

switch copper for real plasma(not fake plasma)

Please get rid of fake plasma

nerdiest pr argument ever

@bustygoku I personally don't think the balance issue will be a problem but people do, so obviously I need to make changes to balance it so the new values aren't disliked.

That's never stopped people from growing 100 potency death nettle. And you can always jsut grow them in the back if you're that paranoid.

have you literally ever seen a chemist that was able to incorporate zombie powder into his plays at all
because i have l i t e r a l l y never seen that

Have you literally ever seen a chemist ask botany for koi beans? (or honestly for any plants at all)

Because I have l i t e r a l l y never seen anyone else even bother.

It's not a question of "able" it's a question of "can they be bothered asking for them".

no i haven't because it wont work

yeah, any average tg metagamer won't give you koibeans unless they themselves are a bad-guy type

Deliberate balance dwcisions. 👎

decisions* fucking phone

Then we can just nerf the chems too

nerfing zombie powder because you insist on 1:1 reactions

QUESTIONABLE

How is that questionable you nerd

Because you're essentially just diluting it, making it far harder to use (less zombie powder per bite/sip of poisoned food/drinks, less you can fit in an implant/syringe/etc.

Then let's find a compromise.

Leave it as it is?

This is a pretty odd thing to want to change - these chems are like this for a balance reason, and on the realism front we're talking about a game where you can put solid lumps of iron into a blender and turn it into a liquid, and a chem system based off volume instead of moles.

The only thing I would change is lube. Fuck that shit and it's multiplying of the most horrible chemical known to man.

you guys are overreacting
all this does is give you some more zombie powder for those very very very rare occasions when you're actually able to make it
it probably still wont get used at all

It's not a realism issue that chemistry reactions all result in the same volume as the inputs. Enforcing a 1:1 ratio would be completely arbitrary.
If some chems are being underused because the ratio makes it impossible to use them, just up the ratios.

I'm not so much against this pr, but against goof's reasoning for it.

as is everybody else.

There is no need to enforce a 1:1 ratio.

yes lets continue to have next to no consistency in our features that's a great fucking plan

🧂

:pepper: